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Peter's avatar

You know I've spent the better part of the last two years deep in a withdrawal group trying to figure this all out because I think it's much more interesting than people give it credit for.

I agree with you about the hyperbolic thing, it's vanishingly unlikely to beat just going slower.

You've underestimated the homogeneity though. It could be the population I'm involved with, perhaps more severe cases go to the effort of joining support groups but far from a menagerie, its really quite astounding how few and narrow the phenotypes are.

The CFS/post viral thing is the most interesting part. At least among the population I'm involved in most cases seem to fall under an acquired/organic neurasthenic rubric. So you would think it would follow that a great many are neurotic but this doesn't seem to be the case at all. And certainly I'm sufficiently insecure to have considered it. The thing is, I'm quite satisfied that the onset of this "CFS" syndrome is de novo in the vast majority of cases. Temporally it's very closely tied either to going on the drug or coming off it and despite many having mood disorder that put them on the drug, for most that mood disorder was not neurasthenia, nor anxiety neurosis.

Look, if you'd have asked me to guess before I got chin deep in it I would have absolutely predicted neurosis but it doesn't reconcile once you're deep enough in the qualitative data.

The other interesting angle is that closer questioning has revealed a supervising number of descriptions that shade very close to temporal lobe epilepsy.

There also seems to be some strange relationship to PMDD and possibly confusional psychosis.

Also, lupus. That's another weird wrinkle.

It's all very strange and there is great temptation to conclude that the problem was pre-existing but some cases are well into their middle years having suffered an all together very different problem.

Ronald W. Pies's avatar

Thank you for the excellent deconstruction of the nebulous and protean term, "withdrawal," Awais, as well as for your informed skepticism regarding various claims about the nature, frequency, and severity of antidepressant-related "withdrawal" syndromes [ARWS]. This is a topic that easily devolves into what I call, the 3 p's: polarization, personalization, and politicization. For example, suggesting that the vast majority of ARWS are neither severe nor prolonged often gets excoriated in social media as "Psychiatry's denial and minimization" of the problem.

Having reviewed this literature for a planned article in Psychiatric News, I am convinced that the kind of rigorous, controlled studies of ARWS that we need--including use of the standardized DESS scale--have simply not been done. Thus, our position as a profession ought to be one of cautious humility, not polemical certainty. Much more can and should be said, and I hope your readers will find the piece by Dr. Jonathan Henssler and me of some merit.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/antidepressant-withdrawal-syndromes-listening-to-the-patient-and-taking-it-slow

Our main conclusion: "To be clear, we want to acknowledge that whatever the usual frequency and duration of AWDS, some patients may experience severe and prolonged withdrawal symptoms that greatly interfere with activities of daily living, vocational function, and quality of life. These facts were not sufficiently emphasized in early clinical guidelines. Nevertheless, in our experience, most problems with antidepressant discontinuation can be averted by slow, careful, individualized tapering, often over several months, and—all other things being equal—by avoiding short half-life agents (eg, paroxetine and venlafaxine) in the first place."

Best regards,

Ron

Ronald W. Pies, MD

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