No one thinks giving an impassioned speech is going to work, but this idea that choosing “the hardest way” will fix us is no solution either. If it’s not true that we don’t need a therapist’s presence, support, acceptance, etc. then why hire an incredibly expensive therapist? Why not do it on your own or read a self-help book? Sure, some…
No one thinks giving an impassioned speech is going to work, but this idea that choosing “the hardest way” will fix us is no solution either. If it’s not true that we don’t need a therapist’s presence, support, acceptance, etc. then why hire an incredibly expensive therapist? Why not do it on your own or read a self-help book? Sure, some people can, but these are not the people who end up with a therapist. Suggestions that shame can be overcome by actions or an attitude shift—these are shaming to those of us who are embedded in shame.
I’ve heard many times that when therapy works, it works because the patient is seen/understood and accepted for who they are. That is, they react in exactly the opposite way that the patient’s family and previous therapists reacted, and it is this surprise that makes change possible. I believe this is true. Unfortunately, most therapists don’t really see and understand their patients (especially if the patient has C-PTSD and dissociation) and when they get glimpses of the worst within, they recoil, often even dumping their patients (I’ve heard about this many times) or, more often, just putting up defenses. This can be even worse because the patient doesn’t understand what is going on, and blames herself for not making progress. More shame!
Is it really true that “indulging in insecurity and self-preoccupation” is wrong? The very word “indulging” says that it is, but insecurity is what we need help with and self-preoccupation is necessary for insight. Ignoring your issues/trauma and going on with life means that your issues are still there.
I really agree that having a different experience with a therapist, one of mutual respect, etc, can be helpful, and I also agree that when therapists end up blaming patients, this results in more shame! It's just my experience that seeing and understanding does not, in some cases, result in a true shedding of shame. I think this is partly why some therapists then get frustrated and blame the patient.
I agree with self-reflection, and at times this takes a very long time. I know it sounds facile to suggest one just stop "indulging" in self-preoccupation and insecurity. But that's why in a sense Evan is heroic. It's incredibly hard, but I do think it's the way out- in addition to having someone who sees you as a whole person.
Good points. I think other people - whether they're a therapist or loved ones - often expect a shamed or traumatized person to feel markedly better after the therapist/loved one TELLS THEM that they should, and that expectation can easily turn to resentment and blame if the shamed or traumatized person doesn't respond as they "should".
Thanks for your reply. I wonder if you’re mistaking cause and effect. If someone can—through some kind of psychological effort, whether in therapy or out, whether conscious or not—get to the point where they can stop “Indulging” and start acting as a responsible and caring adult, it may look like it’s their decision to stop indulging and to act better that is the cause. But it’s actually a shift caused by the work they’ve done or maybe some influence. The decisions we make don’t come out of nowhere; our decisions have causes. And we might decide to be better over and over, uselessly, until something shifts in us and then our decisions have results. We change! But it wasn’t the deciding that changed us.
This from a person who has tried all her life to look honestly at myself, to be a good responsible person, and could never get anywhere until I understood that I had amnesia for childhood trauma. And even that was only the beginning point. If only one of my therapists had understood me and had the skill to guide me. But therapists are mostly blind to structural dissociation and amnesia.
No one thinks giving an impassioned speech is going to work, but this idea that choosing “the hardest way” will fix us is no solution either. If it’s not true that we don’t need a therapist’s presence, support, acceptance, etc. then why hire an incredibly expensive therapist? Why not do it on your own or read a self-help book? Sure, some people can, but these are not the people who end up with a therapist. Suggestions that shame can be overcome by actions or an attitude shift—these are shaming to those of us who are embedded in shame.
I’ve heard many times that when therapy works, it works because the patient is seen/understood and accepted for who they are. That is, they react in exactly the opposite way that the patient’s family and previous therapists reacted, and it is this surprise that makes change possible. I believe this is true. Unfortunately, most therapists don’t really see and understand their patients (especially if the patient has C-PTSD and dissociation) and when they get glimpses of the worst within, they recoil, often even dumping their patients (I’ve heard about this many times) or, more often, just putting up defenses. This can be even worse because the patient doesn’t understand what is going on, and blames herself for not making progress. More shame!
Is it really true that “indulging in insecurity and self-preoccupation” is wrong? The very word “indulging” says that it is, but insecurity is what we need help with and self-preoccupation is necessary for insight. Ignoring your issues/trauma and going on with life means that your issues are still there.
I really agree that having a different experience with a therapist, one of mutual respect, etc, can be helpful, and I also agree that when therapists end up blaming patients, this results in more shame! It's just my experience that seeing and understanding does not, in some cases, result in a true shedding of shame. I think this is partly why some therapists then get frustrated and blame the patient.
I agree with self-reflection, and at times this takes a very long time. I know it sounds facile to suggest one just stop "indulging" in self-preoccupation and insecurity. But that's why in a sense Evan is heroic. It's incredibly hard, but I do think it's the way out- in addition to having someone who sees you as a whole person.
Good points. I think other people - whether they're a therapist or loved ones - often expect a shamed or traumatized person to feel markedly better after the therapist/loved one TELLS THEM that they should, and that expectation can easily turn to resentment and blame if the shamed or traumatized person doesn't respond as they "should".
Thanks for your reply. I wonder if you’re mistaking cause and effect. If someone can—through some kind of psychological effort, whether in therapy or out, whether conscious or not—get to the point where they can stop “Indulging” and start acting as a responsible and caring adult, it may look like it’s their decision to stop indulging and to act better that is the cause. But it’s actually a shift caused by the work they’ve done or maybe some influence. The decisions we make don’t come out of nowhere; our decisions have causes. And we might decide to be better over and over, uselessly, until something shifts in us and then our decisions have results. We change! But it wasn’t the deciding that changed us.
This from a person who has tried all her life to look honestly at myself, to be a good responsible person, and could never get anywhere until I understood that I had amnesia for childhood trauma. And even that was only the beginning point. If only one of my therapists had understood me and had the skill to guide me. But therapists are mostly blind to structural dissociation and amnesia.